A Farming Fairy Tale

Fresh produce and milk are two of the organic categories that have become almost mainstream at this point. Is the wide availability of certain organic products like produce and milk a function of the skills of farmers now? Or has consumer demand driven the technical expertise?

Both. I don't think it's easy to raise organic dairy cows at all, but because of demand, more innovation, and more acres, more farmers have excelled in that. The cows are somewhat easier than certain other highly technical horticultural crops, I think, like growing potatoes. Although I don't have any real evidence of that. I think the dairy farmers would laugh at me for saying it.

What's hard about being an organic dairy farmer?

I can't tell you. I've never raised a cow. I can tell you what's hard about being an organic potato farmer. Ever hear of the Irish potato famine? A little creature, a little fungus called Phytopthera infestans--that fungus and that disease are with us today, and it is very difficult to control organically. There are hundreds of other potato diseases, and potato insects, that are very difficult to control without the toolbox of agro-chemicals that we rely on today. One myth we frequently hear is that farmers are big polluters, that they are hugely committed to these agro-chemicals. There's a reason why: Those chemicals work. They are cost-effective, based on today's internalized cost factors. Farmers aren't thinking about the externalized costs--to the environment and to future generations--of systemic potato insecticides. They don't have the freedom to think about that.

Wal-Mart announced this year that it would double the number of organic products in its grocery stores, to about 400. Should we be happy about that?

I think that's a huge win for the organic industry and the consumer. If what we're trying to do is create an organic world, we could never achieve the dream without Wal-Mart. The fact that they are doing it is going to be a signal to farmers all over the world that organic is coming of age.

What does it mean for someone who started out growing organic zucchini and carrots to become a vice president at General Mills? How does your evolution track back to the world of organic itself?

I've always been interested in creating the largest impact on food and agriculture that I was capable of. I found a very receptive company in General Mills--first as a home for my company, and second, for a broader effort at improving the environmental record of food and agriculture. That's what I do now. I work on developing strategies to improve the environmental performance of the food industry.

Is there any tension between the original organic values you grew up with and large multinational companies putting the word "organic" on their products?

Yes, there's a lot of tension, and there are a lot of critics of that. But I have no personal tension [laughing]. A lot of people wanted to maintain that original, small model. But to imagine that we were going to change U.S. agriculture and keep it all in the hands of market gardeners, instead of production scale farmers, is not only a fatuous dream, it's an undesirable perspective from my view. While success certainly makes it harder for smaller producers, there are plenty of opportunities for all.

What is the meaning of an organic frozen dinner? Is it a sign that organic is growing up, or that organic is being co-opted?

It's a sign that organic is a business like anything else. It's about what we eat. The world is not either/or. That's an artificial antithesis: an idealized view of consumption--where all we eat is fresh fruit right off the farm--versus a supermarket economy. Nobody would challenge that it's best to eat fruit right off the tree, or to drink milk right out of the udder of the cow…. But that's not paying attention to what people really do consume.

Let's put aside the fantasy for a minute. Do you think the changes you talked about will happen "organically"? Will we see the creation in the next decade of an infrastructure that can support an industry 10 times the size organic is now--say, 20% of the U.S. food supply?

"If integrated pest management were truly practiced in the U.S.--if it were widely practiced and widely adopted--there would be a 60% reduction in pesticide use. That's a big deal."