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Fast Company: When did you know you wanted to be an inventor?

Sir James Dyson: At the end of the 1960s, when I was at design college we had a teacher who was an engineer. In my narrow view of the world, I had always thought that engineering and design were separate professions. But I realized then the same person could do both things, like a Renaissance man. So I spent seven years learning to be an engineer as well. Doing both is a better way of working. Instead of being commissioned with a design, you can do it all yourself. You don’t have to wait for something to come along. It’s rather 20th-century thinking that you should split them up. The idea of using product design to sell a product essentially started in the Thirties. Before that, engineers did everything.

I met a few designer-engineers when I was young. The most famous was Alex Moulton, who created the Moulton Bicycle, the bicycle with the small wheels. He also engineered the suspension of the Mini car. He was an auto engineer but also a designer.

FC: You say your products are the result of a series of purposeful failures. Give me an example.

Dyson: When I was doing my vacuum cleaner, I started out trying a conventionally shaped cyclone, the kind you see in textbooks. But we couldn’t separate the carpet fluff and dog hairs and strands of cotton in those cyclones. It formed a ball inside the cleaner or shot out the exit and got into the motor. I tried all sorts of shapes. Nothing worked. So then I thought I’d try the wrong shape, the opposite of conical. And it worked. It was wrong-doing rather than wrong-thinking. That’s not easy, because we’re all taught to do things the right way.

FC: You spent 15 years working on prototypes of your vacuum. A lot of people would have given up. What kept you going?

Dyson: As an engineer, that’s what you do all day long. You build test rigs, and you try out your ideas. You don’t need much persistence because that’s what you get a kick out of. Of course there is a point at which you have done 5,126 prototypes and you haven’t made it work yet. There were times I thought, God, I’m never going to get there. I’m going to go bankrupt.

A lot of people give up when the world seems to be against them, but that’s the point when you should push a little harder. I use the analogy of running a race. It seems as though you can’t carry on, but if you just get through the pain barrier, you’ll see the end and be okay. Often, just around the corner is where the solution will happen.

FC: In a race, though, you know how far you’re running and where the finish line is. You didn’t know how many tries it would take—1,000 or 5,000.

Dyson: I always thought it was just around the corner. That’s good. That keeps you going.

FC: If testing ideas comes naturally, what’s the hard part?

Dyson: I find negotiating the most difficult thing. Engineering is about being open, and being highly receptive to everything around you. But negotiating isn’t quite like that. Essentially, you don’t want to give too much of yourself away. I still think I’m rotten at it.